Glasses-free 3D and the transition to 4K-3D at home

In this post, Ian Herring writes about why glasses-free 4K-3D TV could become the next holy grail of home entertainment

Plenty of pundits have pronounced 3D TV dead, but a new generation of technology could offer the reprieve that we in the business have all been waiting for.

The first high-quality glasses-free 3D tablets hit the market this year and are already flying off the shelves. The 10.1-inch Hampoo and eight-inch Gadmei are mercifully ushering in the end of the awkward active-glasses phase of 3D consumer electronics (CE).

That means it’s only a matter of time before a 55-inch glasses-free 3D TV becomes the next must-have in home entertainment — and that, in combination with the other next big thing, Ultra HD (4K), will be just too fantastic to resist.

It makes me excited about the future of 3D filmmaking.

Imagine sitting on your sofa watching an action-packed film or show, such as Parallax’s upcoming underwater series Bahama Blue or Guillermo del Toro’s summer blockbuster Pacific Rim, in glasses-free, 4K-3D.

In the theatre, because of the tint on my polarized lenses, I found some of Pacific Rim’s fantastic creatures looked dark – snapping me out of the immersive experience. This could be fixed with brighter projection in theatres, but also perhaps, someday, at home. With an autostereoscopic 4K-3D TV the picture would be ultra-bright and crisp — much more so than 1080p — just as it was intended.

Which has got me thinking that 4K may be the gateway for 3D to take hold. 4K is a more accessible idea for people to grasp – it’s not a huge leap for people to see that Ultra HD is a logical step from HD as it’s just a better image.

So for now we leave 3D off the table and when the autostereoscopic sets begin to roll out with 4K resolution, I think it will blow people’s minds in the way HD did when it first came out in the mid-2000’s.

And if things go well, autostereoscopic 4K-3D TV is set to become a powerful, immersive and transformative visual medium, and that’s why Parallax is diving in full-force.

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Swimming with dolphins in 4k-3D may be like being there

 

Review of Inaugural 3D[FWD] Conference at Vancouver, BC January 25, 2013

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We were pleased to be invited to participate in the first 3D[FWD] Conference held last Friday at the Vancity Theatre. The conference kicked off the creation of the first Canadian branch of the International 3D Society and present insight into the 3D business for those foraging forward.

Here’s a short rundown on some of the speakers:

David Brenner, CEO of LA-based Principal Media outlined models of financing 3D productions. Principal claims to be the world’s largest distributor of 3D content. David was clear that it was difficult to fund exclusively 3D content. It was interesting that he recommended that producers pursue a 2D/3D model to create content, to serve both broadcast platforms as we did with our 3D Blowdown episode. David also shared information about an additional revenue stream through VOD apps by television manufacturers that could also generate revenue for even short form content. For anyone in possession of spectacular stereoscopic imagery of any length, this seems like a viable option.

David also provided projections for the penetration of 3D televisions. It is estimated that by 2016, 50% of American homes will have 3D-ready sets. Panasonic has already announced that 90% of the televisions it is already producing are 3D capable.

After the coffee break, there was a great panel discussion entitled “Telling Your Story in 3D.” Moderated by Buzz Hays, founder of True Image Company. The panel included Adam May from Vision3, Joshua Hollander out of Pixar and Robert Neuman of Disney Animation Studios. They shared beautiful samples of their work and lots of discussion about the practical implications of working in 3D both in live action and animation. For me, the greatest part was the reassurance that everyone, regardless of the size of their budgets or the depth of corporate support, has been working things out. Building as we are on a century-old tradition of cinema, it was reassuring to learn that we’re all still learning to master the language of 3D. The exciting part for the audience is that 3D is only going to get better and better as we move through this rapid experimental stage.

After lunch, Parallax Film’s Ian Herring teamed up with James Cowan of Finale Editworks to discuss the reality of producing the 3D content in Vancouver. Readers of our blog will remember the challenges we encountered producing a 3D episode of our Blowdown series.

The session presented by Vancouver based Gener8 was a real eye opener for us. We’ve always had a negative knee jerk reaction about 2D-to-3D conversion, arguing that poor conversions reflected badly on the industry. However, Gener8 made a strong argument for the service they provide. While some movies are entirely converted, Gener8 has also worked on a number of films that were shot native 3D, but pick ups were in 2D, sometimes for reasons of costs. Mark Lasoff and Colin Jenken also argued that given the complexity of some sequences, combining live action 3D, computer generate imagery (CGI) and visual effects, it may be almost impossible to shoot these sequences in 3D and have the components come together successfully. Conversion is viable option.

It was a treat to hear Hugh Murray speak about IMAX’s experiences with 3D. Dating back into the 1980s, IMAX provided many people with their first exposure to 3D films. The technological challenges have been immense, as they not only developed camera systems but also the theatre venues in which the films could be shown. Samples from their recent 3D space films seemed to capture the aspirational aspects of both the voyages of discovery and the visual media with a nod to IMAX’s Canadian roots.

James Stewart of Geneva Film Co shared some of his work producing commercials for companies like Telus and this classic moment from the Honeymooners:

James provided us all with the talking points to sell our media form, reminding us all that if 3D is a fad, it is a 227.27 BILLION dollar fad, that is growing at 15% per year.

The last official presentation of the day was Grant Anderson of the Sony 3D Technology Centre. He presented a series of three case studies in which they shot existing or new projects using 3D cameras. Overall, he found that they were able to get their crews up to speed with a day or two of training, with only modest increases to the labour required for the shoot, usually three extra bodies.

In all his recommendations included:

  1. Plan 3D aspects (including depth cues) ahead of time.
  2. Understand how to shoot for the 3D screen the audience will watch on.
  3. Quick set up and calibration, checked throughout the day and
  4. Know what good 3D looks like and don’t leave with out it.

The results of the white paper on 3D at 2D Economics is available here.

Special thanks to everybody who made this conference happen. The day flew by and they did an excellent job bringing together a varied group with plenty of insight. A special mention goes out to the tech people who made it possible for all the speakers to share their 3D content with the audience at the Vancity Theatre.

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Parallax Film Productions to Sponsor 3D[FWD] Conference

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White Rock, BC – Parallax Film Productions a multiplatform storyteller and film producer announced today that it will be a Sponsor of the 2013 3D[FWD] Conference cohosted by Emily Carr University’s S3D Research Centre and the International 3D Society. 3D[FWD] takes place January 24 and 25, 2013, at the Vancity Theatre in Vancouver, BC.

“3D[FWD] is thrilled to announce that Parallax Film Productions has come on board as a Gold Sponsor for our upcoming conference in beautiful Vancouver, B.C., Canada,” says conference organizer Alan Goldman. “Parallax has been pioneering S3D technology locally for years and we are so excited that they are bringing this innovative spirit to 3D[FWD].”

“Parallax remains committed to promoting 3D technology,” according to Ian Herring, President of Parallax Film Productions. “Our mandate is to combine exciting visual formats with great story-telling and we are betting 3D production will flourish as exhibitors and consumers adopt this exciting format. We’re proud to promote the development of 3D talent right here in our hometown.”

 

About Parallax Film Productions Inc.
Parallax is a British Columbia based film and new media production company. Blending spectacular cinematography with high-end recreations, CGI and visual effects, Parallax brings to life epic stories and unforgettable engineering through “Ancient Megastructures,” “Blowdown” and most recently, “Battle Castle.” Parallax projects include 3D and motion comics as well as television documentaries for National Geographic, History Television Canada and Discovery Channel.

About 3D[FWD]

Happening in Vancouver, BC, Canada January 24th & 25th, 2013, 3D[FWD] is an event that brings together business leaders from a cross-section of industries to explore the impact of 3D technology. Content producers, advertising agencies, and businesses alike will gather to explore emerging 3D concepts and tools.

3D[FWD] is brought to you by the SD3 Centre at Emily Carr University of Art + Design, the International 3D Society and the National Research Council (NRC).

For more information about Parallax:
Visit our website: www.parallaxfilm.com or contact Maija Leivo: maija(at)parallaxfilm.com or via 604-531-2244.

For more information about 3D[FWD]:
Visit their website: http://3dsociety.ca

 

 

Sony PMW-TD 300 3D Camera Review

In this post, Sean F. White shares his thoughts on the Sony PMW-TD 300 3D camera:

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DP/Stereographer Sean F. White preparing a shot on the set of “Invasion” with the Sony PMW-TD 300 3D camera (C) Parallax Film Productions

In April of 2012, after hunting down and tinkering with all the integrated twin-lens/sensor cameras at the NAB in Las Vegas, I concluded that the Sony PMW-TD300 was the most viable solution currently on the market for S3D documentary series and broadcast applications (read previous post HERE).

For those not familiar with this camera, it’s an all-in-one twin-sensor, twin lens, fixed interaxial (I/A) system recording dual stream, full resolution 1920×1080 HD signals in an ENG style camera body. Full specs HERE.

Recently, I spent a week shooting with the PMW-TD 300 camera on the dramatic short “Invasion” for Parallax Film Productions based in White Rock, B.C., Canada. The script called for a combination of documentary-style news footage, exterior action scenes, lit interior sets, and one scene inside a dripping, limestone cave. All this was to be shot in stereoscopic 3D with a skeleton crew, compressed schedule and minimal budget.

The various challenges of the shoot were the perfect testing ground for the camera. Here’s a breakdown of my experience with the system:

CAMERA BODY:

The camera arrived the night prior to our first shooting day. Out of the box, the camera is familiar: lens housing, body, and viewfinder. From the lens housing and back, it resembles most ENG style HD cameras. All the controls, ND filters, menu access, audio dials, XLR, outputs, etc, are self-explanatory and intuitive. Nothing ground-breaking here, which is good if you’re transitioning from 2D doc to 3D doc and know your 2/3-inch HD camera inside-out. Everything is placed as expected and operates without resorting to the user manual. I was able to get the camera’s settings programmed and audio dialed in about 15 minutes.

MENUS:

Most of the general menu features are standard, plus a host of 3D features, which I thought were intuitive. My favourite feature was the alignment control which allowed me to individually adjust the horizontal and vertical alignment of the left and right eye signals PRIOR to any shooting. I filmed a bookshelf on wide angle from about 10 feet away and converged on the nearest subject. I displayed left and right eye on an external Transvideo 3D monitor set to anaglyph mode and zoomed in 200% to the centre of the screen. The camera’s menu allows you to tweak vertical and horizontal alignment at a sub-pixel level. I calibrated the alignment in about 5 minutes and never re-calibrated for the rest of the shoot. Convergence and fine-tune alignment will be done in post again, however this process gets you a better set of images to work with resulting in less enlarging /cropping and resolution loss in post. For live events, this alignment tool is a must.

LENS HOUSING:

Here’s where it gets interesting. The lens housing contains two 1/2-inch “Exmor” 3-chip CMOS sensors (not 2/3-inch) with two matched zoom lenses set at a fixed 45mm interaxial. I think of it as two Sony EX3′s side-by-side. What sets this camera apart from other all-in-one 3D cameras is the intuitive 3-way control dial for zoom, focus, and convergence. You can customize which dial performs what functions. I personally preferred the camera defaults of: large (outer) for zoom, middle for focus, and small (inner) for convergence. There’s a handy, accessible Viewfinder Display button just below the 3-way dial that allowed me to toggle between different 2D and 3D views. I believe you can also adjust colour per eye for best match but I didn’t perform this function since colour match was already close. What did bother me was the complete lack of a lens hood. Flare is a major issue with 3D so not having anything fit to help shade the lenses was a pain. We also encountered light rain during the shoot where a decent hood would have protected the lenses and working in tight quarters, such as in the cave, I was constantly worried about bumping or scratching the lenses and wiping moisture.

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DP/Stereographer Sean F. White with the Sony PMW-TD 300 3D camera equipped with wireless microphone receivers and Convergent Designs Nano 3D drives on location for “Invasion” (C) Parallax Film Productions

VIEWFINDER:

At first glance, there was nothing special about the viewfinder other than the camera’s ability to toggle through a selection of views: left eye only, right eye only, L+R eye anaglyph, L+R onion skin (personally, I like the onion skin mode for setting convergence). What’s really cool is the flip up eye piece (similar to an EX3), which allows you to enable the 3D display mode and take advantage of the built-in auto stereoscopic display when you look with both eyes from about 10 inches. Voila! Glasses-free instant 3D viewing… very cool! Most of my previous 3D shooting has been rugged documentary acquisition without a video village to live view in 3D so this feature was a bit of a novelty. Historically, I always “imagined” and framed based on the math and the measurable overlays on an anaglyph display. Having auto-stereo in the viewfinder was insightful for getting a sense of the roundness and overall 3D feel for the shot. It’s also great for showing the director and other key crew to get them excited about the 3D or to make decisions based on the stereo space. I often found myself setting all the parameters for the shot with the eye piece in 2D, then flipping up the eye piece and framing in 3D with the auto-stereo mode. Somehow live 3D viewing changed how I saw the frame – for the better, I believe.

RECORDING:

The camera records 3D (two streams) internally to Sony SxS cards at 35Mbps. I cannot comment on the picture quality of these files since we decided to tap both of the camera’s HDSDI ports and record higher bit-rate to our Convergent Designs Nano 3D drives. Camera output and Nano Drive recording was flawless – no issues encountered with any settings in the camera. Upon inspecting a few test shots with a digital slate running time code, the camera synch was perfect down to the sub-frame. However, I discovered that the left and right eye files were offset by 1 frame in approximately 25% of the clips. I’m not certain if that’s an issue with the camera spitting out signal or the Nano drives recording synchronization. Further testing required here. The bottom line is that the signals are genlocked and it’s easy to match-synch frame with a slate.

OPERATION:

Here’s where you get your money’s worth. Basically, I was able to setup and shoot matched stereo images in a fraction of the time as our previous beam-splitter rigs and have the flexibility to adjust zoom, focus and convergence on one dial, fast. I didn’t need focus pullers, convergence pullers, rig techs, or to verify focus on each eye, check matching zoom, etc. etc. etc… I was able to shoot hand-held then switch to a tripod or a dolly in seconds – a dream. My shooting rhythm for each shot was something like this:

  1. Zoom and compose frame in 2D with the left eye displayed in the viewfinder
  2. Focus the left eye (I often used the focus-assist button on the right side of the lens housing or using the external Transvideo 3D monitor)
  3. Toggle to the onion skin display mode to set convergence
  4. Toggle to the anaglyph mode to preview the positive and negative disparity
  5. Toggle to the left eye display, shoot
  6. Optional: toggle to the 3D auto-stereo display, shoot

* I rarely ever checked the right eye unless it was raining and drops might get onto one lens and not the other. The focus synch on the cameras was spot-on.

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Director Ian Herring (left) and DP/Stereographer Sean F. White prepare a shot on the set of “Invasion” with the Sony PMW-TD 300 3D camera (C) Parallax Film Productions

LENSES:

I was skeptical of the two built-in miniature lenses since quality glass of that size with matched zooming is not easy to find on the market. Since 3D favours wide angle, I was disappointed that the widest angle was only 53 degrees of view (appx 40.6 mm in 35mm photographic equivalent). Furthermore, I found that the lenses were softer on the widest angle and sharper at the midrange of the scale – nothing unusable but impossible to compare to prime lenses.

PICTURE QUALITY:

For “Invasion”, we recorded to Nano drives at 1920×1080, 23.98fps, at 140 Mbps per eye. In general, the image quality of the daytime outdoor action scenes and interior lit scenes matched what I would have expected from a Sony EX3 recorded at the same settings with the exception of the softer images at widest angle. With 1/2-inch sensors, there’s more depth of field compared to a 2/3-inch or Super 35mm sized sensor for the same given aperture and lighting. What you sacrifice in overall sensitivity with a smaller sensor, you gain in added depth often desired for 3D. So in this case, a smaller sensor is actually an advantage in well-lit situations. Where the PMW-TD 300 camera struggled was in the extremely low light of the limestone cave. Even with supplementary lighting and +6db gain, the deep blacks fell apart and visible noise was apparent throughout the image.

Again, I can’t comment on the quality of files captured on the internal SxS cards which record at 35Mbps.

RESTRICTIONS:

Obviously, because of the fixed 45mm interaxial, the camera is limited in its ability to get close on a wide angle and as a result, has a signature 3D “look” inherent of its I/A and the depth-of-field of the 1/2-inch sensor. Having worked with fixed system before, I was able to get a sense of the space and distance-from-subject required to shoot comfortable 3D. In general, I’d want the nearest subject no closer than about 6-feet away if I want to converge on them and keep faraway background objects within 3% positive disparity. Any closer than 6-feet and the subject floats in negative which is OK – sometimes… I was also pleasantly surprised how much roundness I was able to achieve in telephoto subjects with the same locked I/A. As with all 3D cinematography, the relationship between foreground and background and I/A will dictate the overall 3D depth. With this camera, it is important to be careful about when to increase distance between the foreground object and background or when to compress them to bring all objects into comfortable stereo. The built-in scales and overlay functions in the menu will assist with that.

CONCLUSION:

Overall, I was impressed with the camera both in quality and ease of use. There’s no way we would have been able to film “Invasion” in the time and budget allotted with any other system and get similar results. Although I had to adjust my framing to allow for the limitation of the fixed I/A, the combination of weight, portability and ease of operation allowed our team to execute more shots, a variation of shots, and more takes with our actors than if we had used any other system. I can’t wait to use this camera again!

PROS:
  • Fast setups and shooting
  • Size and weight
  • 3-way zoom, focus, convergence dial
  • Fixed I/A of 45 mm is a decent compromise for close and medium shots
  • 1/2-inch sensor provided greater depth-of-field
  • Auto-stereoscopic 3D viewfinder with excellent 2D and 3D display options
  • Output options (2 x HDSDI) great for external recording / monitoring
  • Audio features great for self-contained ENG shooter
  • ENG style camera body and menus = intuitive menus, no surprises
CONS:
  • – Non-adjustable I/A
  • – Low light sensitivity not great
  • – Lenses slightly soft on widest angle
  • – Wide angle not wide enough
  • – Lack of lens hood or shade
SUGGESTIONS:
  • – Adjustable I/A from 30mm to 75mm
  • – Better lens hood / shade design for the front lens housing
  • – Sharper lenses, especially wide angle please!

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On the set of “Invasion” with the Sony PMW-TD 300 3D camera (C) Parallax Film Productions

Sean F. White is a Camera Operator/DOP for countless international documentary projects. He is a trained stereographer and has shot and delivered 3D content with Parallax for Blowdown 3D and Battle Castle.

@seanfwhite

Shooting a 3D documentary: building a mini beam splitter rig for close ups

Vision alert. So we’re thinking of designing our own mini beam splitter rig to shoot close ups for our first 3D documentary . Here’s why: as I’ve mentioned,we’re trying to sort out our B cam system using Film Factory’s 3D Indie BS Rig – this should hopefully work for the majority of our B cam shots.

But it isn’t the most portable system – something that will surely prove challenging on an industrial site, where the explosive demolition series Blowdown takes place.

For the odd close up of the crew loading explosives etc. in a condemned sports stadium in Salvador, Brazil, it’s painful to think about moving the whole rig and setting up just to get a shot or two.

And we’d like to avoid using a side-by-side rig  because it’s a mission (if not a mission impossible) to get the cameras close enough together to film these types of shots.

If there’s a way to build a mini beam splitter unit, one person could just move in and get this footage with way less trouble (ie. instead of two people to set up the full-sized rig, etc.).

As an added bonus, we could also use this system in a temporary pinch if the main B cam system happened to go down.

We bought an extra mirror anyway, in case the one that came with the Film Factory Indie rig system malfunctions mid-shoot … why not try and put it to use?

Our stereographer, Sean White, knows a machinist who may be able to help us build this mini rig we’ve envisioned.

We’d probably use Canon Vixias – smaller than the Sony EX1/EX3 combination we’re trying to make work with the Film Factory Indie rig – and rig it as an underslung system.

One camera would be positioned below (instead of above), and the spare mirror would be angled the opposite way as the one on the full-fledged beam splitter rig.

This rig would theoretically snap onto a tripod, and would achieve a small enough interaxial distance for us to get the close-ups we need without a mega hassle.

If any stereo, etc. issues arose, we’d correct them in post – theoretically a relatively small workload considering we don’t use tons of these types of shots in our shows.

At the moment, it’s just an idea – but seems fittingly par for this unchartered course.

Editing a 3D documentary: working with two audio channels in Cineform Neo3D

Looks like we’ll have to find a workaround for the audio issue we’ve encountered with Cineform Neo3D software in order to edit our first 3D documentary.

As I’ve mentioned, the 3D files that Cineform creates only have two audio tracks.

To capture ambient noise as well as a conversation between two subjects for the explosive demolition show Blowdown, we have to capture at least three channels (a boom mic and two lavs), sometimes four (camera mic).

Our editor, Brian Mann, has been in conversation with Cineform developers to see if we could find a way to edit with more than two channels.

They’ve been very prompt in replying and helpful.

But unfortunately it looks like there’s no way to edit more than two channels of audio using the current version.

There’s no particular reason why the program’s this way – it’s just a design factor that isn’t optimal for our specific post production needs.

As far as we’re concerned it’s the best high-end game in town, and otherwise it’s working great.

Cineform’s lead Mac engineer plans to add it to the list of things to add to their future release, First Light.

In the interim, we’ll have to figure out how to adjust our workflow.

3D documentary gear: the nano3D is in, Fujinon lenses are out

Success! We’ve tested the nano3D with our A cam system and it actually works! Looks like we’ll be able to usSuccess!

We’ve tested the nano3D with our A cam system and it actually works!

Looks like we’ll be able to use this little recorder deck to shoot our first 3D documentary later this summer.

But it did put up a bit of a fight …

And its functionality has made me aware of another part of the system that’s not going to fly – the stock Fujinon 2.8 mm and 4 mm lenses we planned to use with the Iconix sensors.

Here’s how it all went down:

The nano3D comes with a trigger remote, used to start and stop recording.

We hooked it up to our sensor/lens kit and the remote didn’t work.

Likely a consequence of being one of the first pre production models released and rushed to us … but a consequence we couldn’t afford.

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The nano3D recorder and documentary filmmaking: a match made in stereoscopy?

With our B cam system in transit, I’ve focused back to the A cam setup for our first 3D documentary.

Our A cam equipment will have to capture all of our B roll, etc. for the next episode of Blowdown – the implosion of a massive sports stadium in Brazil.

We’ve nailed down the basic footage-capturing plan – two Iconix sensors with Fujinon lenses on a side-by-side rig.

But the Iconix aren’t like normal video cameras – no tapes, hard drives or flash cards. They “see” the footage and then spit it out.

So where are we going to store it?

If this were a scripted production, shot in a studio or on a controlled set, a tape or digital recording deck with a large array would be the way to capture the footage at the 100 MB/S or more, the minimum bitrate we need to satisfy broadcast requirements.

But because the Fonte Nova demolition is event-based and will take place in an industrial worksite, we need a recording system that’s cordless, portable (not too heavy, cumbersome), and hearty.

I think the nano3D will satisfy these criteria for us – it’s a just-minted twin drive designed to record stereoscopically and keep everything in sync between the two cameras.

(more…)

3D documentary filmmaking – the great splitter rig DSLR experiment

I’ve chosen cameras to test with our 3D Film Factory BS Indie Rig, two main parts of the B cam system we’ll need to shoot our first 3D documentary.

We plan to mount two Canon 7D DSLRs on the Indie Rig, a mid-sized model that’s currently being shipped to our production house.

Our stereographer, Sean White, chose the middle-of-the-road rig because he was worried that a small one wouldn’t allow for enough coverage when using a wide-angled lens, that the cameras would “see” the inside of the beam splitter box.

And a large rig was out of the question for the event-based, run-and-gun industrial-worksite shooting that’s required Blowdown, the explosive demolition series we’re going to shoot. Our stomping ground will be a huge, condemned sports stadium in Brazil!

But there’s a huge potential downside to our mid-sized, non-refundable rig – if the Canons don’t work, logistically or qualitatively, we won’t be able to mount larger, higher-calibre video cameras because the rig’s not big enough.

But it’s a gamble we have to take – as far as we can tell, there aren’t any other systems like this … no documentary has been filmed this way, using a hand-held self-contained unit.

(more…)

3D rig showdown – side-by-side? Beam splitter? Both

Two is better than one, right? We’re getting a clearer idea of what it will take to shoot our inaugural 3D documentary: To effectively capture Blowdown in the third dimension we’ll need two different kinds of rigs.

For our A cams – we need a handheld, side-by-side rig, with all of these components:

– Heads – sensor – two Iconix cameras;

– “Brain box” to control Iconix cameras;

– Lenses that attach to the Iconix sensors;

– Convergent design 3D Nano-Drives;

– Interaxial sliders for the heads; and

– A handheld rail system

For our B cams, we’ve decided a beam splitter rig’s the way to go.

So we’ve ordered 3D Film Factory’s BS Indie Rig. It’s $2,900, pre-paid and no returns.

Hope it works.